Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject: what do americans think of snowden?
Being out of usa and the media hype there, we are getting our information from twitter and blogs mostly, what do americans truely think of what snowden has done?
is he a traitor to both his country and the government, or just a traitor to the government?
the picture being painted from outside usa, i get the feeling hes done something good but unlawful, i feel disapointed in the us ca uk oz and especially nz governments for spying on us all. and using each other as a loophole to illegal spying. i think snowden is courageous and show be a hero except to the business he worked for and the us govt. honesty should not be a punishable offense.
there are many laws here that do not apply when you go against our government. They will regain control of this situation with the cost of his life even though he kept within all guidelines of the whistle-blowers act. _________________________________________________________
HQ KHRIS1972
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:36 pm Post subject:
and once again, straight over my head. BUT, put it this way guys, the USD dollar is going good again lately.. 96 cents for 1 AUD dollar right now, when it was 1.09 for 1 AUD not that long back (6 months ago). _________________________________________________________ HQ Network:
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halofan102 Moderator
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 Posts: 451 Location: Murica XP: 18,192
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:10 am Post subject:
I don't really care much about the politics here.
Personally I think he's just a troll. Plain and simple.
He purposely signed up for his most recent position simply to snitch.
If you know your history Daniel Esberg the 'Pentagon Papers' leaker released documents describing the US military's involvement and how U.S. presidents such as LBJ lied to the American people about what was really going on over there.
Elsberg leaked something out of good conscience after realizing how awful the war in Vietnam was.
Snowden on the other hand, wanted to leak info before even taking the position...
Just another attention whore in my opinion. All governments spy to get a leg up on each other.
China steals information from U.S. government computers and American corporations in order to help their own.
A classic example is their pseudo private corporation, Huawei who stole IP from Cisco.
Is my government perfect? No. But nobody's is. If Snowden was Chinese or Russian, well let's just say those countries wouldn't be happy about it either...
X_Splinter Moderator
Joined: Jul 03, 2004 Posts: 2385 Location: Portugal XP: 368,740
Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:30 am Post subject:
The government can spy you and if you reveal the Government is spying you are traitor... what a bullshit
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 Posts: 451 Location: Murica XP: 18,192
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:34 am Post subject:
X_Splinter wrote:
The government can spy you and if you reveal the Government is spying you are traitor... what a bullshit
You are totally missing the point.
Anyways, just hear what I am saying here.
1.) Never called the guy a traitor, don't like him though
2.) Snowden complained the US had the CAPABILITY to spy on regular people. The US said they only tracked phone calls of suspected terrorists. So basically his point is moot.
Also while you can be cynical and say 'it ain't necessarily so' there are checks and balances to prevent repeats of J. Edgar Hoover's era of the FBI.
It's not perfect, but not as bad as it used to be when Hoover tried to dig up dirt on Martin Luther King Jr. JFK, Pete Seger and a whole host of other famous speakers, entertainers or politicians in order to blackmail, silence or discredit them.
3.) If Snowden were Chinese or Russian and leaked info from those governments he would be hunted down and captured or killed. Just search for how many times the Russian's tried to take out dissidents like Alexander Litvinenko or berezovsky etc.
4.) Last time I checked the U.S. government doesn't kill people for simply voicing an alternate opinion. As far as torture goes, they hire third world countries to do that for them
X_Splinter Moderator
Joined: Jul 03, 2004 Posts: 2385 Location: Portugal XP: 368,740
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:44 am Post subject:
halofan102 wrote:
3.) If Snowden were Chinese or Russian and leaked info from those governments he would be hunted down and captured or killed. Just search for how many times the Russian's tried to take out dissidents like Alexander Litvinenko or berezovsky etc.
4.) Last time I checked the U.S. government doesn't kill people for simply voicing an alternate opinion. As far as torture goes, they hire third world countries to do that for them
Sounds like "United Saints of America" ah? The only difference is that USA pretends to look like a good guy which is not. Look how many wars it made only in the last 20 years, how many conflicts it had stick his nose on it.
They capture people and tortured them without any accusation, and they dont hire foreign to do it.
Plus even if that was true it would be the same thing, If I kill you or I hire someone to kill you is the exact same thing. Same crime _________________________________________________________
You might want to check again Halofan. USA went ballistic over UK giving Fuchs 14 years, they wanted him in the chair. And Frank Olson was a doctor on the CIA LSD project (MKUltra) in the late 60's and 70's, he threatened to expose them, he was druged and shoved out a window. USA paid his family 750k to shut up and go away. Sounds pretty guilty to me. And they have jailed guys till they turn to dust for spying. Is that any different than Russia irradiating defectors? Look into Guatemala n the 50's and the coup of Aristide n Haiti in the 90's. Just for some reason people see thee things as OK, but when somebody else does the same they are monsters
Last edited by SPPV on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total
gamexxover Moderator
Joined: Feb 17, 2007 Posts: 2131
XP: 143,168
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:24 am Post subject:
He exposed our government spying on its citizens, the government and liberals that support the government are pissed, those of us that believe in freedom and our constitution see him as nothing more than someone that exposed our crooked government for what it is. I am glad he did what he did.
Our government has come to think we are here to serve them when they forget they are nothing more than our employees.
Our government has said Snowden has hurt our government and country by making us look bad, Bull shit, our government made us look bad.
That is like the Italian Community getting pissed at a witness that exposes some Mafia thugs crimes., and saying the witness made the italians look bad.
halofan102 Moderator
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 Posts: 451 Location: Murica XP: 18,192
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:43 pm Post subject:
X_Splinter wrote:
Sounds like "United Saints of America" ah? The only difference is that USA pretends to look like a good guy which is not. Look how many wars it made only in the last 20 years, how many conflicts it had stick his nose on it.
They capture people and tortured them without any accusation, and they dont hire foreign to do it.
Plus even if that was true it would be the same thing, If I kill you or I hire someone to kill you is the exact same thing. Same crime
I said we are NOT perfect. All I am saying is the Russians and Chinese would NOT be having any of this crap from Snowden if he were their own. The Chinese and Russians don't play tiddlywinks with people they consider traitors. Doesn't make what the US does right, I'm pointing out no one is perfect.
True, the media in the U.S. presents an image that we are good and holy. I know what goes in the world. Just look at Bahrain, a majority of people don't like the king, but the US has a base there and doesn't want to lose it so our media simply doesn't talk about protestors in Bahrain being killed. But of course our media goes on and on about Syria and previously Libya.
I'm not a typical American since I actually pay attention to world events
About the torture joke, I was referring the waterboarding stuff that was a hot topic a while ago, they had secret interrogation places outside of the U.S. for that. That's what I was referring too. I basically was saying the US spy agencies try to keep the blood off their hands by doing that or paying other countries to do it for them, like Mubarak in Egypt, the Shah in Iran etc. You totally missed my sarcasm.
By the way who edited my post with the Putin middle finger poster? Got a kick out of that.
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BUT, put it this way guys, the USD dollar is going good again lately.. 96 cents for 1 AUD dollar right now, when it was 1.09 for 1 AUD not that long back (6 months ago).
