Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: x-clamp fix, suggestions to those that have failed
I read more and more about people that have done the x-clamp fix, yet within a couple of days it fails. Don't worry, I have been in the same boat as you
Here's some suggestions that may help out more on those 360's giving nightmares
1) Use a good thermal paste! Don't use the cooler master or the other white paste. I have found that they cannot handle the heat generated by the systems. Use Artic sivler or artic cooling paste.
2) Cut little peices of a credit card(it's probably a good idea anyways) or calling card or somthing plastic but yet the same thickness into 2-3mm squares and put them on the outside corners and side of the chip package(not on the die's themselves). They can be held in place with just a touch of the thermal paste to stay in place. This helps give a consistant pressure on the whole BGA packgage and not just the pressure on the dies themselves. Reason - there are many more solder pads under the whole packgage that may have a bad solder joint so this will help when you decide to re-heat the chipsets after the x-clamp fix. This is not advisable if you heatgun the board but will help afterwords.
3) Depending on what you use to screw down the heatsinks, make sure there is clearance between the bolt/screw and the metal caseing. The hex screws generally have enough room, but if you are using the hex bolts(one you use a socket on - not a pair of pliers), there is not enough clearance and your board will warp again once it's attached to the metal case. Drill a bigger hole at the bottom of the case to allow the head through, or big enough to bolt through the case itself- your choice.
4) DON"T USE PLIERS - this will give more of a chance of cutting a trace if you slip if you decide to bolt directly under the board. I've already done re-traces due to this from someone else error.
5) I'm not a fan of the heatgunning technique, but I have used it myself on laptop boards and a couple of times with the 360. Here's the trick for overheating the gpu that I use. do your x-clamp fix, screw the board onto the metal casing...can't stress this enough. It will straighten out the board before you overheat it thus helping the solder pads to re-flow. Grab a cassette tape case and take everything out. Have your rear fan connected and the plastic shroud on to flow the air out. Now take the lid of the tape case and put it between the gpu heatsink and the shroud to prevent any airflow over the heatsink, but allowing it to flow through the cpu heatsink. This delays the time that the system will overheat. Now start your system up. Even if your console starts up correctly don't think it's fixed !! Still let it sit and overheat the gpu. You can tell when as soon as you touch it it burns your hands, if you have to think it's hot enough..it's not. If it goes three lights, on all systems that I have done so far using this method, you know it's hot enough when the fans start to spin at full speed, like the 12v mod. This takes longer than the 2 mins that is usually posted, more like 5-8mins. This overheating is as dangerous as using your heatgun to get it to 260deg. when the fans are at full, check the gpu heatsink. If it burns right away, you can safely turn it off. Let it sit for 2hrs. You've waited this long for the fix, so be patient. Once the time has passed, fire it up and you should be all good. Pull the tape case out, put the system back together and hopefully your system will not give you another nightmare.
I hope this helps out for some people. I've fixed about ten consoles using this method and haven't seen them come back yet. I had 5 previous ones that I didn't follow this method and they kept coming back over and over with a different secondary code every time. Did this method and all is good now.
Delta
PS, by all means if you have another trick that has helped out, lets get it all together here.
j8994 Moderator
Joined: Feb 05, 2006 Posts: 1853 Location: Tennessee, USA XP: 834
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject:
question about number 5
when you remove the xclamp and mount the bolts and screw it down in the case. did you tighten the bolts on the xclamp before mounting it to the metal case or after you over heated it. _________________________________________________________ Please post all PC Questions at PC-HQ.com
I screw and bolt everything in place before I heat. I look at it in this sense. If I have a board removed and place it on the table, it's warped already. If I do the x-clamp fix with the plastic spacers, I hope to even out the center of the board and then by screwing it down to the metal case with the outside retaining screws, this will help even out the outside of the board. Unless you've kicked the metal case around and bent it, it should be ok. I've come across boards that once I've unscrewed it from the case, you can actually see that the holes no longer line up due to warping from heat. Those are the ones I know someone has done the towel trick to the console. It's a dead giveaway. I just try to make it secure in the metal case before heating, because if the board is warped before the heat, then put in the case it has a higher chance of failing when it's straightened out when secured into the case. Like I said, it's all trial and error, but this method has given my the best results of not seeing the console back. When I get a little extra cash together, I'm going to see what the temp of the heatsink is actually getting to, and if it's a feasible process to take, or if it's pipe dreams I work in a factory and dealt with products that actually melt leather gloves if you handle too long, so I have a pretty good sense of what is hot enough and not.
I have gotten a couple 360's from ebay with the rrod and they had the xclamp fix done, funny thing is that i romoved the washers between the heatsink and board and it worked perfect... i never used washers between them, personally i think it works better without them. _________________________________________________________
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The problem with the washers is the thickness, and it's worse when using the nylon ones because they are generally thicker. So when you use the nylon and metal ones together the heatsink is too high and the air gap is too much, which is another thing I don't believe in personally, and it doesn't disperse the heat correctly. Reason for not liking the air gap - that's the whole point of lapping the heatsink on highly OC'd pc game systems. So the paste doesn't have to fill in cracks as much and the heatsink sits flush with the die of the cpu, thus transferring more heat effeciently.
robbieboy 360-HQ Freak
Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 911
XP: 886
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject:
well all the xbox's that i've fixed (16 so far) all i use is a 1mm thick washer between the Mainbord and Heatsink and a split washer under the Mainbord so it will not get lose...
but YOU DO have to cover the washer with some masking tape then cut out the hole and around the washer.. to insulate it....
Works like a charm _________________________________________________________
my question is this, why do you insulate it? Did microsoft insulate the pegs for the x-clamp, and it has no where to short to if you aare using the correct washers which are the same size as the copper ground point. And as for the split washer, good idea if you are throwing the console around all the time, but I highly doubt that they would come loose. Don't forget, in case you haven't done so, is to drill out the metal casing to allow the head of the screws to come through. If you're not you're creating pressure against the board which might be harmful over a long period of time considering how hot the console gets.
robbieboy 360-HQ Freak
Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 911
XP: 886
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject:
deltaarmstrong2000 wrote:
my question is this, why do you insulate it? Did microsoft insulate the pegs for the x-clamp, and it has no where to short to if you aare using the correct washers which are the same size as the copper ground point. And as for the split washer, good idea if you are throwing the console around all the time, but I highly doubt that they would come loose. Don't forget, in case you haven't done so, is to drill out the metal casing to allow the head of the screws to come through. If you're not you're creating pressure against the board which might be harmful over a long period of time considering how hot the console gets.
Good Question, I do it cos the washers i get here are a little bigger than thay should be (that is the only size i can get here...) and i use the split washers cos with all the heating up and cooling down it might losen (not undo)
and i have never drilled holes in the metal case but i do see how that could help...
there is also the other way to fix it you just take off the X-clamps and put the washers on the pins (on the underside of the mainbord) and replace the x-clamps...... that can some times work too.... my xbox is done that way. _________________________________________________________
What I first started to do was take the clamps off, redo the thermal paste, bend the arms of the clamps more for more tension and clip them back on. It definitely held the heatsink down more tighter, but the warping of the board was the real problem I found. That's why I got into the habit of placing everything back in the metal case and securing it, then doing the overheating. Found it worked better, and didn't have the issue come back within a week.
Now I see the insulating reason. Didn't want to offend, just thought maybe there was a reason I couldn't see for myself
robbieboy 360-HQ Freak
Joined: May 15, 2006 Posts: 911
XP: 886
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject:
deltaarmstrong2000 wrote:
What I first started to do was take the clamps off, redo the thermal paste, bend the arms of the clamps more for more tension and clip them back on. It definitely held the heatsink down more tighter, but the warping of the board was the real problem I found. That's why I got into the habit of placing everything back in the metal case and securing it, then doing the overheating. Found it worked better, and didn't have the issue come back within a week.
Now I see the insulating reason. Didn't want to offend, just thought maybe there was a reason I couldn't see for myself
Yeah mate i allways put it all back in the case too.... that way the solder will set in the right place cos it's where it's going to be when finnished... you don't need to move the mainbord when your done heating it...
i have one at the moment and it will not snap out of it it, comes back to life then goes again with all sorts of error codes now 0022...
thing is someone had tryed to fix it b4 and mabe thay made it worse.. _________________________________________________________
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I work in a factory and dealt with products that actually melt leather gloves if you handle too long, so I have a pretty good sense of what is hot enough and not.
